JP Werlin: Hi, welcome to Digging In. My name is JP Werlin, and I am your host of this video series directed at sales leaders by sales leaders. In Digging In, our goal is to provide you an insight and outlook into what makes a successful salesperson in today’s high energy, intense sales environment.
Today, I have invited Matthew Gitzlaff from Wil-Kil Pest Control, located in the Wisconsin area. Wil-Kil serves most of the Midwest. Matt is Wil-Kil’s Sales Manager. Matt, welcome.
Matthew Gitzlaff: Thank you, JP Thank you.
JP: Great. Thanks for joining us today. Today’s topic will be focusing on how your journey in your sales paramount, but first tell us a little bit about your role as sales manager of Wil-Kil and what you guys focus on there and how you spend your day.
Matthew: Okay, absolutely. So, my role at Wil-Kil is to guide and direct the sales efforts, both commercially and residentially. We are servicing a wide range of customers across a few different states and we have got four outside salespeople, one business development manager, and then I have got three inside salespeople that I have direct oversight for.
JP: Okay, so what is the total team size at Wil-Kil right now for you?
Matthew: For the sales team, we have got seven.
Matthew: Eight. Sorry, eight people total.
JP: Eight people total. Awesome. And in our pre-interview, we talked about you were recently promoted to that role. Is that correct as sales manager?
Matthew: Correct. Yeah, the first of 2016.
JP: Awesome. Congrats.
Matthew: Thank you.
JP: And did you start your sales career at Wil-Kil?
Matthew: No. No, I had a long career eight years before I even joined this industry doing direct sales on the frontline.
JP: Wow. So, in direct sales, was that inbound or outbound sales efforts?
Matthew: It was outbound. It was for a manufacturer of products, and I sold through distributors across an eight-state geographic area.
JP: So, was this you would get a lead list and you are calling down and just dialing for dollars, or how did that go?
Matthew: No. Yeah, there was some phone work. It was a lot of in-person. It is a high dollar sales effort. A small sale was not very common, so there was generally a bigger commitment, so the sales cycle was long. It would be more phone contact setting meetings and appointments.
JP: That is a tough way to cut your teeth. What were your expectations going into that job and how did that match reality?
Matthew: I took that job right out of college. I had a sales major and a management minor. Knew I wanted to get into sales, graduated from college, and I was interviewing. And I was working actually in the factory at the time and a position opened up in a different state, so I interviewed for the job, got it, and moved up there. Really no expectations. I had done some sales in internships through the course of my college career. I tend to appreciate and mesh better with a longer sales cycle, so I had done stints with short sales cycles and that just was not for me. The high pressure, short sales cycle does not suit my personality, and so I knew the sales cycle was a better fit for me.
So, that was really the only expectation I had, was I knew the company well. I worked there for years, but as far as the sales goes, I had really no expectations after that.
JP: Right. And so, with a longer sales cycle, sometimes that takes a little bit more relationship building. Is that what attracted you to the longer sales cycle?
JP: And what about relationship-building do you like?
Matthew: I never want to work for the company that is the lowest price provider. I think you get customers on price; you lose them on price. I think if you want to build a business, you need to find customers that appreciate the value you bring. And until you can show value, you are going to have a hard time selling and I think people are much more receptive and give you the time when you have built the relationships with them.
JP: Right. And so, as you have sort of started out your sales career in a longer sales cycle time, relationship building environment, what are sort of the key things you have found that work to building rapport and a relationship with either potential customers or existing customers?
Matthew: A couple of different things I would guess. I would say consistent follow-up. I mean kind of the old cliché of do what you say you are going to do when you say you are going to do it, but it is amazing how few people actually do that.
Matthew: And it is being available. I mean at the end of the day, sales is not a nine-to-five job. I was overnight gone a lot, and I think one of the things I took pride in is that my current customers did not really know when I was traveling because the level of responsiveness was always there. And I think that is one of the keys to what my success was there, was just they would not know when I was traveling. So, I was just as responsive when I was at an airport as when I was in a hotel as when I was eating lunch in the middle of South Dakota.
JP: Right. So, this was you were out on the road, making customer visits. You were calling on new customers and existing, or were you just focused on new?
Matthew: New and existing. We had a line of products and very few customers bought everything, so that is what the goal was. They were buying one of our competitor’s products that we also made something similar to, so our goal was to kind of our get our scope of offering to the customer bigger and deeper and broader.
JP: Right. So, let’s tackle the new customer first, and then we will go to the existing. What are some of your tips and tricks for a new customer? How do you get them to start talking? How do you get them to open up? How do you get them to share what the real problem is they are trying to solve inside their business that your company might have a solution for?
Matthew: It all depends on how cold is cold I guess. If you go and this person has never heard of your company, it is a lot of work. You are going to be doing six, eight, ten, 12 touches until you maybe get a return phone call.
Matthew: I think the variety. I think using marketing materials wisely. Giving a variety of things. And truthfully it is kind of being pleasantly persistent, so to speak. You do not want to be that annoying gnat, but you want them to know that you are going to be there. You are not giving up. I had a customer that we had had some bad blood with them in the past before I got there and he just said hey, I am not going to do business with you ever again, is what he had said, and when I lucked, he was an A type customer.
It was probably 15 months of once per month, every six weeks stopping by, dropping off a flyer, dropping off a business card, saying hey, just let him know I stopped by or dropping him a phone call, even a voicemail or an email and just kind of circling the wagons. Just persistence. Just staying after it.
JP: So, did you say 15 months of being pleasantly persistent?
JP: Wow. So, when you first started reaching out to this guy, you said he was never going o do business with you again.
JP: Was he not even taking your meetings to start?
Matthew: He talked to me once on the phone because he was on a cancelled list, so I reached out to him and said hey, I know you bought from us years ago. Just want to know what happened and if there was anything I could do to help kind of rekindle its relationship. That is when I found out kind of the dirt what happened. I was like okay, well. I said hey, that is now how I am, but you have a perception.
So, I think a lot of sales - some people may disagree - there is a lot of excitement. And at the time, he did not feel there was a need for it, for looking at another line while something happened in his world that I was like hey, you know what. Maybe I need to at least hear what he is going to say and see what opportunities he has.
JP: Wow, that is awesome. So, you got the first meeting. You got the dirt. You got what went wrong probably by your predecessor, where they dropped the ball or there was a shortcoming. So, how long till he started to warm up over the course of that 15 months?
Matthew: There was one point. Probably about the year mark, where he would respond, saying could you assure me what happened in the past would not happen here, and he did get a little bit more receptive. So, you have to kind of (Unclear 9:54) and say hey, you do not know me from Adam, but here is what I am about and here is the way I operate.
JP: Right. Wow, that is awesome. I love the point about being pleasantly persistent. And going back to the number of touches, that is a big conversation in the sales world about how many touches. Is a no a soft no or a hard no? Early on, you mentioned six, eight, ten, 12 touches. Have you found a magic formula there on the number of touches?
Matthew: Not in my life, no. At least not yet. You may have a hard time pinpointing that regardless. I think you do not hit on the hard no. If they say do not call me ever again, well, if you listen to them, you are going to have nobody to call eventually, so you have to still. Is it once per quarter? Is it once every six months? I think, just again, a lot of it is the timing and they know you are going to be calling. If they recognize your voice and they see your email signature, those are all those things they are going to think of, which often does happen because undoubtedly their credit provider will drop the ball.
Every company makes mistakes. You want to be the one to capitalize on the mistakes.
JP: Right. Right. Interesting. So, if you stay pleasantly persistent, I think what you are saying is just keep yourself in the game, right, or on the table as an option, and part of it is also relying on your competitor to mess up.
Matthew: It happens. Everybody makes mistakes. Every company does.
JP: Yeah, so there is a little bit. What attributes are there? Sort of like patience, right?
Mathew: Oh, absolutely. Patience. I mean persistence. Organization. Knowing who they were. In my world, we are only so many distributors, so I did not have thousands. I maybe had two hundred in my world. 250. So, it was not terrible to keep track of, but yeah, you can suddenly lose track of it and before you know it, two years have gone by and you never talked to the person. You maybe might have missed your window.
JP: Got it. And you were in this role starting out your career for how long?
Matthew: I started out and the territory grew. Just had more and more states added to my territory. I was there for eight years before I came to Wil-Kil. Eventually saw eight states and then I moved and started working in part of Canada. I think a company can see when you are able to handle more and I believe you are not given anything you cannot handle.
JP: Yeah. Awesome. And so, what were you looking for as your sales career evolved? What was attractive about growing at Wil-Kil?
Matthew: I have always wanted to get into the management side of it. I mean I love direct sales. I love getting out and talking to customers. Still that is one of my joys, is getting out. And anybody knows in sales management you do not get out as much as you would like. Everybody has got a sales management role by selling, so everybody has excelled at it in some point in their life. You hope at least. And that was where I wanted to get to.
I had done some management work at my previous company and it was just a change. I was at a time in my life. Let’s see what else is out there and through just connections I kind of got hey, why don’t you talk to Wil-Kil, and I met with somebody here and it kind of meshed up. I had no reason to leave. I was doing fine where I was at. And we met and we talked about corporate culture and what I look for in a company and what I think a company should look for. It just meshed up really well and it was one of those things.
Looking back now, I just had a little boy. Probably looking back, it was not the smartest time to make a career change and going from a business-to-business product. And then, from there, I came to Wil-Kil. I was in business to consumer service, so a whole different world and I had very little experience. So, at that time, looking back, it was an interesting time to make a switch.
JP: Yeah. Yeah, I think I can totally relate to an interesting time to make a decision. Pipeline deals just started when I had my second son, so that was an interesting time in the Werlin household, but very cool. So, you mentioned culture. You are now a sales manager, so you are the person for whom you used to work, right? You had a sales manager at your prior role, and so when you thought about the tone you wanted to set or the culture you wanted to build as a sales manager at Wil-Kil, what were the top things on your list?
Matthew: A lot of it actually goes back to some sales stuff. It is that responsiveness. I do not ever want to be the reason that a sale does not get done. I will always be the person that is going to move things along. I think you always need a next step. On the commercial side of our business, the sales cycles can be longer depending on the size of an account, and there are different things we need to do, different services we need to figure out, and so there does need to be some flexibility. But with flexibility, you need to keep things moving.
So, that is what is really my biggest thing is there, and then guiding and looking for ways for improvement. I mean I think, in sales, we all have areas to improve and I think it is identifying what those weaknesses are and looking for ways to improve them, because at the end of the day, we are all in sales. You are employed because you are doing something right. We all do not do everything one hundred percent right, so how do we identify those areas for improvement?
JP: Yeah, and so then how do you think about your role as the sales manager of splitting between player versus coach? Are you carrying a quote there? Are you responsible for a personal delivery of revenue?
Matthew: I do not. Nope, I am solely just oversight of both the commercial and residential sales. So, I may get involved with certain large accounts, but as far as direct sales, no, I do not.
JP: So, is it one hundred percent of your time coach right now with your current time?
Matthew: Yeah, I would say pretty close to it. We have 80 percent. I will be on the field, going on inspections and meetings. When you are at a meeting, you are not necessarily coach. You are there kind of as a team. So, I would say I am probably in the field at least one day per week, so I would say probably close to that 75 to 80 percent.
JP: Yeah, so 20 percent player and 80 percent coach. And when you are in that coaching role for the 20 percent of the time, are you listening in on calls? Are you reviewing performance? How do break down? Thinking through the last week or two, how have you spent your time with your seven or eight people on your team?
Matthew: So, it really differs because we have got three people that sell inside, and so they are selling our inbound residential leads, so that sales cycle is very different. That sale is generally closed on the phone or within two days.
Matthew: And that is where I came into it, was overseeing the residential side of it, and so that was where my involvement was. So, I mean yes, that is coaching. Here is what we should be saying. How we should be offering our packages. How do we handle some of the objections before they even come up? We have a small office here, so I can hear a lot of conversations as they are going on and we meet very regularly. Every month for a dedicated hour to hour and a half. Then, throughout the course of the week, there is multiple touch points.
JP: Right. And so, what are you focused on right now? What are those key attributes in the sales cycle? Either the short, inbound version or the longer commercial side, what are those key things you are reinforcing with the team today?
Matthew: Organization. We are at a peak season right now, and when the weather warms up, the bugs start getting crazier. So, the phones get busier. Everybody tends to run around a little bit more and it is really easy to lose focus, so there are always tests we all have to do. Some of those we do not like to do, but it is making sure that we are doing those things we have to do.
So, for inbound, yeah. There are outbound efforts. Just following up on opportunities that if we are not organized, those tend to lapse, and the same with the commercial. We always need to be filling our pipeline, no pun intended.
Matthew: But we need to keep the funnel full and (Unclear 19:58) it is going to be too late.
JP: Awesome. You keep underlying organization. Organization. I think it sounds like helping people be organized and disciplined is a large part of your role as sales manager.
Matthew: Yeah, I would say it is, and looking at the activity. How much activity have you done? Did you have a productive day based upon activity or do you just feel like you had a productive day because you are tired?
JP: Yeah, I think about this a lot with our sales team. Do you think all sales activity are created equal?
Matthew: No. There are different things that get us to the sale in any industry, and here it is an appointment. It is an inspection. It is a proposal meeting. So, as you get through these different steps, you are likelihood to close the sale can increase, but you may have to make 25 phone calls to get one appointment. So, until that funnel is full and bursting, that is when you have kind of arrived.
JP: Yeah. How do you think through helping your team with their sales activity? Identify those activities that are resulting in the highest yield, right? So, it is a time to desired outcomes sort of ratio, right? How are you helping your team make those in the chaos now that it is spring there and things are getting busier? How are you maybe helping your team stay focused on those high value activities?
Matthew: It is removing the hurdles. So, if activity is not where it needs to be, hey, what can I do or what do we as a company need to do to remove these hurdles, so you have the time to do that. Are you stuck doing more maintenance on things, because the roles here are more of a hunter mentality? You may maintain contact with current customers, but if you are not hunting, you are going to starve. So, yeah, it is really looking at the hurdles in a lot of cases, but then looking at the activities and looking at their weekly activities.
How many new touches have they had? I look at each person and I look at the averages of the group. How is the group trending? Are they moving up over the course of the month? Month to month, have they moved up? Has their activity decreased? And to me, that is what is going to guide us to a more consistent sales year.
JP: Yeah. How has your thinking evolved around activities? How many activities are you tracking today in your CRM?
JP: Six activities. And do you ever think of trimming that list or adding to that list?
Matthew: We may trim it a little bit, but I would not add to it. Again, there is only so many activities that really relate to closing a sale. You have to get more advanced to get the meeting. You are never going to make a sale until you do an inspection, until you get our team to give the proposal. So, really those are really the items that we have to do.
JP: Right. So, I am not in the pest control industry, so what are those? And I think this is applicable across industries, but I am thinking just for your business, what are those six activities that you are focused on as a sales manager? You mentioned inspection and proposal. Are new touches one?
Matthew: Yeah, so what I would say is an in-person cold call. You are out. You have an appointment. Stop at nearby businesses. Your initial phone call. You are driving by. Write down a place and call them. Follow-up phone calls. Follow-up emails. Follow-up touches. Networking events. And then an appointment and inspection, and then proposal.
JP: Appointment. Inspection. Proposal. Right. So, if I was in a different industry, the appointment. Is the appointment over the phone or is to face-to-face? Is there a particular? Do you devalue face-to-face?
JP: Okay, got it. And then the inspection. Is that the salesperson or do you have a separate crew who are inspector who go out with the salesperson?
Matthew: No. No, it would be the salesperson. They would want to go through the facility and take a look at that because, depending on what they find, that may affect what they propose.
JP: Got it. Got it. So, your salespeople are also doing the inspection and preparing the proposal.
JP: Got it. And then what about the handoff from sales? I assume they are not going out in the suit with the thing on their back and taking care of the extermination. What is the handoff? When do you hand it off? Is there an operations manager that you are handing off to?
Matthew: We hand it off the managers over the technicians. So, we have got a certain amount of technicians in the field, and when that sale is made, the service team gets a copy of the agreement. Any pertinent information is there. Depending upon size of opportunity, the salesperson may even meet them there and do the introduction. Say hey, this is Mark. This is Bob. Bob, this is Mark. Here is what I have found. And they would be there for a few minutes. Ten to 15 minutes, and then they will take off and go about their day again.
JP: Awesome. Yeah, I like how you do not just throw the deal over - the transom - to the technical folks. It sounds like you keep the salesperson involved, again, reinforcing the relationship.
Matthew: But it is a relationship with the service team. We do not ever want it to be an us versus them. We are all on a team and a sale does not count until it is started.
JP: Yeah, got it. Makes a ton of sense. So, I wanted to circle back and we have talked about sort of your journey over your sales career. And thinking back through, you have done an amazing job to now be leading a team of eight from starting off. I did not know you started off on the manufacturing floor and found your way to sales. I learned that today. And now sales manager. You are on quite the trajectory. What do you think has been your competitive advantages, or what about Matt that is making you successful in your career?
Matthew: Motivated. I think I am a driven person. I am motivated by a lot of different things. Obviously money is always important, but at the end of the day, I think if you do your job, you are going to be compensated well for it. Organization. You have heard me say it a million times, but I think salespeople have that stereotype of being scatterbrained and unorganized. And I think just because there is that stereotype, you should not live up to it and to me, whatever tools you have to use to stay organized, whether it is a paper calendar or whatever works for the salesperson, is what you should use. I will never dictate how you need to stay organized as long as he is doing it. To me that is important. To me, I do not know what I am doing next week, but if I look at my calendar, I will know right away.
JP: Yeah. So, you have got motivated. You are organized. What else? What else is catapulting you ahead of folks who are maybe stalling out in their career? Let's say you are coaching me. Let's say I am a line level salesperson at your old company and I am just sort of stuck. I feel like I am on a treadmill. I am not getting the promotion. I am not getting the bonus. How would you coach me to sort of breakout and stand out in my sales career?
Matthew: I have to see dollar results. Are you achieving what you need to achieve? And if you are not, let’s look at the hurdles that are stopping you from doing that. Are you busy enough? Are you active enough to get those results? And to be honest, some people do not want to move up. Sometimes you always have to identify those too. Complacency is not bad. Complacency just is not me. I am not a complacent person. I do not like standing still. I do not like sitting still.
Matthew: So, I think sometimes you need an army of the complacent people to keep the business afloat too.
JP: Yeah. Are you a carrot or a stick motivator? In my situation, say I am looking to break out and I think I want, right? I think I want to be promoted. I would like more money, right? What works for you: a carrot or a stick?
Matthew: I am a carrot. Being forced to do something I do not think and being told to do things is not my style. It does not work for me. Show me what is there. Maybe help guide me, and that is how I will learn. That is what I want to do the other way around, is hey guys, here is what you can do. Here is how much you could make if you do these things. Let’s work on getting there.
JP: Yeah. And what are some of the best carrots you have come up with for salespeople? Is it money? Have you tried different carrots?
Matthew: Some. Everybody is motivated by different things. It is hard. So, you have one person motivated by money, so you are showing him hey, you can make X amount percent more this year by doing this. And they are salespeople. You hope they realize that. You hope they understand their compensation program well enough to know that hey, if I hit this next plateau, I can make this much money.
Otherwise, even to me, giving tools, helping them as a technology in the field so they have more time at home with their families. To me, there is success in work, but you have to have a balance in life as well. I do not ever believe in working 60 hours per week. I think it has to happen sometimes, but it is not healthy to have to work that much. If you are having to do that, I think then the carrot is how can we keep your successful and then trim how many hours you are working.
JP: Yeah, so time. Time is a lever. Money is a lever.
Matthew: From the competition. I mean I think in sales you are competitive. I mean I want to hit my goals as much as the rest of everybody. Improvements over last year are great, but I want to hit goals at budget. So, I think challenge them. Show them where each person is at. It is something we started doing and saying hey, here is the list. Here is the rankings and see it. Nobody wants to be in last place.
Matthew: You can say you do not care about sales if you are on the service side of it, but ultimately nobody wants to be in last place for anything.
JP: Yeah, if you are hiring the right people, I guess that would be the one assumption, right? If you are hiring motivated folks.
JP: So, you guys do have leaderboards and you do rank people out based on certain criteria.
JP: What leaderboards are you managing right now?
Matthew: It is just based upon sales.
JP: Oh, so dollars.
Matthew: It is total sales. Yeah, individual sales. Then team sales.
JP: Oh, interesting. And do you have a bonus if the team hits?
Matthew: There is. There is individual bonus, and then we do have a sales contest going on right now that is team-based.
JP: And what is the prize?
Matthew: It is actually a bracket. The final four type bracket. And as you move through the ranks, you win money for each round you make and then top winner wins the most amount of money.
JP: Ah, that works. Little May madness. Not March madness. You are having some May madness.
Matthew: Well, we started it in March, so each month you move on to the rest. It will take us through July I believe. July or August.
JP: And then you have got to come up with something new for August.
Matthew: We will. I will. We have got some ideas going.
JP: Cool. I look forward to hearing what those area. So, wow, I have learned a lot on this call. I love your comment about being pleasantly persistent. Being motivated. Organized. On organization, that is kind of interesting. Do you subscribe to GTD or Rockefeller habits, or do you have your own methodology that you use to stay organized in your personal and professional life?
Matthew: I have just kind of developed it and tailored it over the years. I mean as technology comes, you kind of adapt and I am big on using an Outlook calendar and Outlook tasks, and they are all listed there. So, whether I am on the field on my phone or I am sitting in my office, I can kind of keep track and know what I have got to cross off my list because at the end of the day, there is a lot of things that come at anybody and then you have got to follow-up in 90 days. How do you remember to do that?
I got a call from a sales rep on Thursday to ask a question about this. How do I remember to do that? So, it has forced me to do that. I was reading on LinkedIn. You see those articles. Time management. Time organization. I am a sucker for those I guess, so I always skim them and read them. I do not think you can ever stop learning. I think there is always something you can learn. I think if you are not reading a self-improvement book at any point in the year, I think you are really missing out and you get passed by because there is somebody else who is working that hard and is looking to improve themselves.
JP: What is your favorite self-improvement book?
Matthew: I really liked Good to Great. Honestly it is a staple. A good one. I just read and I re-read it. It is not relevant as far as sales goes, but a book called The Goal about manufacturing.
JP: Yeah, I hear Herbes.
Matthew: Yeah, we have got that, and then the book we are reading right now is a book called Fanatical Prospecting, so it is a book about prospecting and it really is growing that funnel.
JP: Do you have a book club on your sales team at work?
Matthew: No, but actually we just started. Actually I just passed out the books. We will be passing them out this week. We have got a sales meeting in July that I will be holding, and I am working with a training person at our company to develop a discussion guide. And hey, let’s read the book and then how do we implement this into our professional life and use these tips. I think it is willing to do as I say because I say to do it, but I think if you can bring a third party source sometimes it brings a little bit of a credibility factor. It is not me saying it. It is not my boss saying it. It is this guy who wrote this book who is obviously good at his job because he would not have a book if he was not.
Matthew: How can we take what he does?
JP: Right. And so, the book right now that you are passing out this week is Fanatical Prospecting.
JP: I have not heard of it yet. I am adding it to my reading list right now.
Matthew: There you go.
JP: Yeah, that is awesome. Right now I am reading Predictable Success, so I am really enjoying Predictable Success, so Fanatical Prospecting is next. Thanks for the tip.
JP: Cool. So, sort of wrapping up here, again, appreciate your time. I know it is spring there in Wisconsin in the Midwest. I know the pests are getting pesty.
Matthew: They are.
JP: But if there is one thing to leave the audience today about how they can be more organized or how they can bring a little bit more rigor to their day to get to the next level where they want to be in their sales career, what would be that one thing to be more productive and organized, be that one recommendation from Matt?
Matthew: Look at the hurdles that are stopping you from doing it. Identify what those hurdles are. Is it time? Then figure out how to make more time. We all have the same hours in a day, so figure out what is stopping you. At the end of the day, we can sometimes be our own worst enemy. So, whatever it takes for you to be organized, figure it out and then figure out what the hurdle is from getting the results you want, and then start removing some of those hurdles. And a lot of times, it is I do not have the time to do this. Well, then let’s figure out how to make that time.
If you have a large geographic territory, are you spending too much time driving? Do you need to route yourself better and say you know what? I had a big territory and I was always told run your territory; do not let it run you. So, figure out when you can be there and honor that, but do not let things deviate you to kind of throw your whole game off its plan.
JP: Yeah, I like that. Run your territory. Do not let it run you.
JP: Love it. Love it. Well, Matt, I really enjoyed this conversation. I have learned a ton. I hope our viewers have learned something they could take home and implement tomorrow in their business, in their sales career. We will provide a written recap. We will list the book here in the video, and so folks can follow up. Good to Great. The Goal, and Fanatical Prospecting.
I read two of those three and those are all great picks. I wish you guys the very best up there in Wisconsin at Wil-Kil Pest Control, and I hope we can follow up here in a few months and see how things are going, but I really appreciate your time today, Matt.
Matthew: Absolutely. Thank you. It was fun.
JP: All right, thanks for sharing your wisdom. Have a great day.
Matthew: You are very welcome. My pleasure.